swimming in the soup
swimming in the soup
SITS 1x10 - Diving Deep with Meg Jones Wall
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SITS 1x10 - Diving Deep with Meg Jones Wall

on publishing, passion vs. process, and pushing against tradition

What’s up, swimmers? It may be February, but I’m not done talking to people yet!

Especially in a 7-ruled Seeker year, it can be really potent to explore, and even challenge, your spiritual beliefs, traditions and practices.

The last couple of conversations that I’ve had (first with Hanna Williams, and then with Maria Minnis), have shown me how a religious framework can allow for connection—with the Divine, with the Self, and with the Ancestors or other lineages—depth, ritual and ultimately, expansion. They’ve pushed me to see how some of my own religious trauma has clouded my view of religion as a container for faith-based, loving action, and I hope that you’ve gained some potent insights as well.

But what if you’re looking to break free from the rules? What if you’re looking to create a whole new system for yourself? Well, that’s where Meg Jones Wall, and her new book Finding the Fool, come into play!


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I found a god that makes sense to me, one brimming with grace and joy and magic, and I know that she loves me exactly the way she made me: queer as hell.

- Meg Jones Wall

Meg (she/they) is the writer, photographer, and creator behind @3am.tarot. She is a tarot columnist and staff writer for Autostraddle and writes seasonal tarotscopes, personal essays, and spreads for this queer online community. She also runs a tarot newsletter called Devils & Fools, and is a contributing writer for Astrology Answers.

As a self-taught, queer, chronically ill tarot reader, Meg offers a unique and modern perspective on the cards. Her writing focuses on keeping tarot intuitive and accessible, using gender-neutral language and welcoming readers of all identities into the community.

She is also an insomniac, an explorer, an INFP, a 4w5, and lives in Brooklyn.

Whether I’m weaving ideas into words, capturing them in images, or making them come to life in real time, I love finding unique ways to explore the world that we live in, and provide methods of deep, authentic connection.

- Meg Jones Wall


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In less than a month, Meg’s first book, Finding the Fool, will hit shelves! During our conversation, not only does she share with us the story of how it came to be, but she unpacks it’s powerful invitations and ethos, as well as generously offers her experiences in the opaque world of traditional publishing.

I love Meg so much, and I was thrilled to have the opportunity to gab with her. We ended up spending over 3 hours together—not all of it recorded 😉—so you’re likely to hear some bonus clips in the coming weeks, as it was too hard to whittle her wisdom down to a proper runtime.

Some of my favorite moments from this conversation include:

  • "Writing a book takes a really long time! And what you initially conceive of versus what you pitch, versus what the publisher buys, versus how it changes when you're writing it... the year you wait between turning in the final draft and when it makes it into the world... We change and grow and learn things during all of that happening."

  • [on the Smith Rider Waite deck & other tarot books] "I kept trying to make myself buy this deck... and I never could. I think that's because the deck just did not speak to me... I wanted something that I felt like I could see myself in."

  • "For me, spirituality is going to be cooking a good meal, and blessing it, and praying over it, and imbuing it with whatever my magic is that day... Or walking around in nature, or singing a song... It's become a very sensory thing, and it's been very tied to pleasure in a way that has been a really freeing, powerful, long time coming!"

But there really are so many juicy journeys within. Let me know which moments stood out to you!

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If you’d like to continue learning from Meg, there are so many ways to do so!

Read her Writing

Shop her Courses

Preorder her Book

Sign Up for her Newsletter


Until next time, just keep swimming!

xx, Rebecca


Discussion about this podcast

swimming in the soup
swimming in the soup
a little bit of this, a little bit of that. all things magical & mundane, spanning a plethora of topics like witchcraft, philosophy, spirituality, religion, pop culture, and more.